Interview Directory 

LEADER

Name: Prof Dr Francis Waldvogel

Occupation: Professor of Medicine, was Director of the Department of Medicine in Geneva, Vice President of the Science Council and President of the Swiss Universities of Technology.

Education: Medical School, University of Geneva and Paris M.D. Degree

Residence: Switzerland

Why did you find the concept of emergence so inspiring that you wrote a book about it? 

"The whole is more than its parts" 

Prof Dr Francis Waldvogel: Emergence comes from the Latin: "emergere", to emerge, to rise up. The term was first developed in the 19th century, then mainly in the last 50 years. It originates from systems theory and the social sciences. It can be perfectly summarised in one sentence: "The whole is more than its parts". I came across this concept indirectly through my professional life. As an academic, physician and head of major academic institutes, I have realised that our historical way of thinking and research, which has been highly efficient for 300 years, is now coming up against obstacles. The most important questions about life, disease and death, consciousness, climate and society cannot be understood in terms of salvation. The world does not consist of individual parts, but of interconnected complex subsystems that exchange and network with each other. This interaction creates new properties that are not contained in the subsystems. 

How can people benefit from the findings in your book?

Emergence is a universal principle that has not only a scientific but also a social dimension. A family and a rich society are typical examples of emergence. Thanks to this emergence, people can develop selflessness and tolerance. Exchange and interaction are fundamental human characteristics that can be promoted through emergence. That was also the reason why I wrote this book. I want people to see that this principle can also be applied on a societal level and that it is obvious that people, humanity and countries only exist because they are held together by exchange. 

How do you want to publicise the topic and reach a wider circle of people - will you be giving readings on the subject or appearing on talk shows?

I am more of an individualist. In the large network that I have built up in my career, many people ask me for help, for example board members of large institutions and authors. But I would love to develop a talk show about it. 

In your book, I also found the part about the newly created infosphere very relevant.

Nature has many communication systems, but they are limited. With the infosphere, we have developed a world that is totally chaotic because we have not made any moral considerations. I am in favour of a new ethics. We must try to keep the new infosphere within a moral framework. 

"The infosphere is dividing our society". 

But the big companies like Meta and Twitter/X determine morality.

In my opinion, that's wrong. Today's development is purely economic. We have to restrict massive information such as fake news or lies, but neither Google nor Amazon can do that. It has to go through philosophy, academia and politics. The infosphere is invading our lives everywhere. I watched a programme about Tiktok and felt that children are being turned into robots, that you're constantly being fed what you've already seen, and that it's fragmenting society. The infosphere is dividing our society.

Where do you get your information from?

I work on the internet, but as an academic and professor I have a critical view. I think that universities need to work differently. Professors already have to explain how to select the right information from the wealth of information available and discard the other. This is a new intellectual task that falls to the universities. 

In your opinion, what are the most important achievements of society and what is your prognosis?

I will probably surprise you. The greatest achievements are not scientific, but social. Food for all, prevention of famine. The education of children, even in poor countries. The emancipation of women. These are also the results of subsystems. The basis for this was the scientific and technological development of mankind. If we can overcome these problems in the next 40 or 50 years, we will have done something good. 

"It's late, but not too late." 

What do you fear for humanity, but above all, what are you looking forward to?

The scientific and technological tools must be introduced into the social sciences and humanities as emergences. What worries me is the fragmentation of society. The absurd wars we are fighting, the dogmatism. During the Covid pandemic, one dogma stood against another and nothing was exchanged. 

I'm also worried about climate change and the destruction of the environment. It's late, but it's not too late. We can act now for the next generations. 

"It's always about the same thing. Bringing people together to create a collective intelligence."

In your position, you are in direct contact with decision-makers from politics and business. 

It's always about the same thing. Bringing people together to create a collective intelligence. It's an optimistic way of looking at the world, but it's my way. My network includes Switzerland and France, England, USA; a little bit of Germany because I'm in the Leopoldina Academy.

"If you tackle big problems with a collective intelligence, they will be solved."

I am very impressed by your optimistic approach.

A classic example from my book is the ozone layer. Thirty years ago, a chemist discovered that the ozone layer is being destroyed by aerosols. The whole of humanity came together politically and all aerosols were banned. It took 20 years for the ozone layer to be restored. If you tackle big problems with collective intelligence, they will be solved because we have the science and the technology. The same concept applies to the plastic problem, countries' solutions need to be combined.

Take pyrolysis, for example, where plastic is broken down at high temperatures without oxygen. The macromolecules are broken down into smaller molecules and this becomes diesel, which can be used as heating oil. A good example of collective intelligence. 

Think cyclically and not linearly, like in nature. In business, everything is linear, but if you can turn it into a cycle, you get more of what nature does. 

"The world we have developed no longer fits our eyes"

Have you written another book about this?

In my next book ("Nature, You Can Still Save Us", published by Odile Jacob Paris, editor's note), which has already been accepted by the publisher, I will show that we can still learn a lot from nature if we don't treat it with disrespect. Humans have changed their own environment in the course of their rapid development. The adaptation to his new environment is inadequate. The diet of our ancestors, for example, was inadequate, and today we have everything in abundance; the consequences are obesity. Of course you can't go back, but you have to have this analysis in mind. Culture has made huge progress, nature is moving forward slowly, and we have a gap in between.

Apparently there is a new epidemic of myopia in children due to the constant use of screens. The world we have developed no longer fits our eyes. This is where we find ourselves in the field of bioethics. 

The book is also about the plastic epidemic. We have simply produced plastic, and every year 10 million tonnes of plastic end up in the oceans. We have a moral obligation to analyse our achievements in terms of whether they are in balance with nature.

"I lived my whole life the way I wanted to, without any political restrictions.“

In which role have you found the greatest fulfilment in your long professional career?

In the last 20 years, I have mainly worked on projects. My fulfilment comes when these projects benefit humanity and take it further. I was very happy with this philosophy. 

As soon as I became a full professor, I decided to devote all my time to others. I was a passionate professor and trained more than 400 doctors and over 40 professors. When I was able to support someone so that they could realise something new, it filled me with the greatest joy. From birth, I grew up in a happy family, in a beautiful Switzerland and in a beautiful Europe. I lived my whole life the way I wanted to, without any political restrictions.

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