Interview Directory 

ENVIRONMENT

Name: Dr. Katrin Schuhen

Occupation: Chemist, professor, author, founder of Water 3.0

'Now that I've learnt more about the concept of rebellion, I think that rebellion can also happen in a sensible way.’

Dr Schuhen, why do you call yourself a ‘rebel of water’?

I didn't give myself the title. It came about over the years because I am often perceived as a rebel in the water community because we do things differently. I address things and ask a lot of questions. Even questions to which there are often still no conclusive or well-founded answers. Rebellion and being a rebel can happen and be lived in a sensible way, without weapons and violence. I can now identify more with the title.

And looking back. I was already rebellious at school and my parents had a lot to do with me. It was perceived as rebellious that I switched from a career in music to a career in science, then into research, finishing my doctorate. Then into industry. After my four years in industry, I made the first cut. Back to university, back into the scientific apparatus as a junior professor of organic and ecological chemistry. After six years of research, I made another cut and founded my non-profit organisation.

‘We share the knowledge. We pass it on because we need water without microplastics everywhere, not just where the money is, but also in regions with fewer financial resources and often more far-reaching problems.’

What are the implications of your invention for humanity?

From a purely data-driven ‘detect, remove, reuse’ perspective, my solution for water without microplastics is multidimensional and also much faster than previous processes. With Water 3.0, we accelerate action at all levels. Hand in hand with people. We provide support for sustainable process optimisation, for better handling of water, and deliver ecologically, economically and socially compatible solutions. The industry needs this support in order to be able to operate sustainably with clean water - we help to close the knowledge gaps. And we share this knowledge. We pass it on because we need water without microplastics everywhere, not just where the money is, but also in regions with fewer financial resources and often more far-reaching problems. The dimension we are dealing with is a global one, because we are talking about clean water.

‘The dilemma with microplastics is that there are no limits. That's why there is no push for action.’

Who are your partners for Water 3.0?

We have individual parties in the political arena who sit on the decision-making bodies and whom we provide with scientific data so that limit values can be set at all. The dilemma with microplastics is that there are no limits. That is why action is not being pushed. 

For example, microplastics still play a subordinate role in plastic processing or recycling companies. This is because there are no laws and regulations. The focus here is on the sometimes very high consumption of fresh water and its reduction. This goes hand in hand with the fact that contaminated water is not simply released into the environment or sent to the nearest sewage treatment plant, but instead circular economic process flows are installed, i.e. water is recirculated. We work with industries on their material cycles, not just water, but also waste, with the aim of reuse. And then there are the municipal sewage treatment plants, which we help to put the data recording on microplastics on a secure footing. 

Technik für Wasser 3.0 ©Wasser 3.0

Das steckt im Grundwasser: Plastikverklumpungen ©Wasser 3.0

‘There are big industries and small industries, and they are all still operating under a cloak of silence.’

Many industries want to know what can be done. Typical questions are: How can we reuse water and remove microplastics and other pollutants? They want to know whether this is affordable. There are large industries as well as small industries, but most of them would like to operate under a cloak of secrecy. However, the signal is very clear: they want to prepare today for tomorrow, for the moment when laws and regulations are implemented and processes are scrutinised in more detail for all sustainability criteria. 

‘That's why we offer the industries that come to us the opportunity to sign a confidentiality agreement.’

This is why we offer the industries that come to us the opportunity to sign a non-disclosure agreement. We want to remove that hurdle, remove the fear and say we're here to help and not to take money out of your pocket.

‘We don't even know where the hotspots for microplastics are and who is responsible for them.’

What is the current situation and what are you calling for?

We don't have any comprehensive data on the concentration of microplastics in the environment. This means that we currently don't know where the hotspots for microplastics are and who is responsible for them. We know that we find microplastics everywhere, but it is unclear where they come from. Tyre abrasion and textiles are sources of type B microplastics in the environment, i.e. microplastics that are created during the use phase. However, the hotspots, i.e. the places where high concentrations of microplastics are found in the environment, are in other places. For example, in municipal sewage treatment plants and in industry. Enormous concentrations of microplastics are found in the production, processing and recycling process, and all in one place. Not diffuse, scattered everywhere in the environment. 

Regulations must stipulate that the industrial process is analysed and monitored, e.g. how much microplastic is released and enters the sewer. The first step is to control this process and that is what we are calling for. We need standardised monitoring so that we can obtain comparable data and then use this data to take meaningful action in places where it makes sense. 

‘Microplastics are not a problem that arises in the sea, but microplastics arise on land. If we come up with solutions, there is no point in analysing the whole thing politically in an ocean decade because the concentrations are so low.’

So there is no limit, no number?

In the media, we read about trillions of microplastic particles in the sea. However, this is down to around 1 (one!) microplastic particle per litre. Microplastics are not a problem that arises in the sea, but microplastics arise on land. If we approach it with solutions, it is no use analysing the whole thing politically in an ocean decade because the concentrations are so low. There are an incredible number of particles, but we also have an incredible amount of water in the ocean. In rivers, e.g. the Rhine and smaller rivers, we assume between 10 and 100 particles per litre. If we go even further back into the municipal wastewater systems, we are at 1000 particles per litre.

And if we go one step further back to industrial production facilities, we find millions of microplastic particles in one litre of water. If we were to harmonise all the data and relate it to one litre, it would quickly become clear to everyone where we need to start in order to prevent the increase in concentrations in the sea. Not in the sea, but in industry.

That would also be the aim of a limit value. If a discharge limit value is set for industry, i.e. a limit concentration that must not be exceeded at any time, then either the wastewater treatment system must ensure that the values are adhered to at precisely this point or the process must be improved so that microplastics do not escape from the system into the wastewater in the first place. The beneficiaries would be our lakes, rivers and the sea. This would prevent concentrations from rising. With catastrophic consequences for the climate, biodiversity and our health. 

‘When it comes to microplastics, the sea is lost. We have too much seawater, but it's not a landfill either.’

What do you think about ocean cleanups in general?

When it comes to microplastics, the sea is lost. We have too much seawater, but it's not a rubbish dump either. So we simply have to stop dumping things into the sea out of sight and out of mind, because it will come back. At the moment, the sea is swallowing quite a lot. If you look for it, you can find piles of rubbish and plastic islands, and the seabed is also littered with plastic waste in some places. But you always have to realise that the problem always arises on land. Either within product design, if we rely on more and more unecological consumer goods and spread them on the market, in industrial production processes, but also in consumer behaviour and in the end-of-life of products. There are many options for action. 

What effects do microplastics have on the body?

Microplastics have already been proven to have a direct negative impact on us and our environment. The smaller the particles are, the higher the risk. Once the particles cross the blood-brain barrier, there are many individual reactions that vary from organism to organism. If animals mistake microplastics for food, they can die because they cannot metabolise them. In humans, diseases such as Alzheimer's can occur and various types of cancer can develop. It's not that we have to eat, drink or inhale thousands or tens of thousands of particles before we feel a health impairment. It is possible that even a single microplastic particle can make us ill. 

What's more, microplastics are also a transport vector. This means that the particle can absorb or release substances. Among other things, plasticisers, bisphenol A, phthalates and organic substances can be transported. These are then released into the body when absorbed. These transported chemicals are also a health risk. 

‘If it takes this long for a law to be passed every time, we probably won't have any limit values in 20 years' time.

What about the glitter ban?’

The so-called glitter ban, which was passed in October 2023, is a first step in the right direction, but many more measures need to follow. The fact is, it all takes a very long time for a law to be passed. And then we usually take a step, but often only a small one. I would like to see more vigour and courage on the part of politicians. 

‘We need an overall value. And if this overall value exists, then we can do the same thing all over the world.’

Do you need lobbyists?

The good thing would be if we didn't need a lobby for climate and environmental protection and the protection of our livelihoods. But as long as economic interests outweigh everything else, including the survival of our planet, we also need a lobby for the protection of our home. I am a big fan of co-operative effects, collective improvement and transparent communication instead of greenwashing. 

So much good could happen with microplastics, but it fails because of the common goal. At the moment, for example, there are many different methods that can detect microplastics, but each method provides a value that is not comparable with another method. The analytics lobby is now trying to push one method instead of harmonising all methods. It would be much better if many people recorded usable results that could then be used for joint action for water without microplastics.

As a polymer chemist, I know how the industry produces and analyses its polymers. And here we are talking about individual polymers. If you look at the complexity behind microplastics, we are talking about 200 different types of polymer. It is therefore all the more important not to describe the concentration of a polymer in the environment, but to quantify an overall value. The total value is then also the reference value for the limit value and this closes the circle. 

In another interview, you spoke of ‘game changers’ that you are looking for?

We are looking for partners at industrial and municipal level who are proactive in developing solutions. It's about those who say: we want to make our processes microplastic-free, recycle water and save resources. When these three things come together, we find ourselves in a real transformative field of tension. We roll out the red carpet and help to ensure that there are more and more visible ‘game changers’. 

‘We work according to the open source principle. Patents are made available to everyone. We wanted to shield ourselves from companies that only have their own, mostly purely economic interests.’

You have had Water 3.0 protected as a patent.

We work according to the open source principle. We share our knowledge, but still shield ourselves against companies that are only chasing after their own economic interests. We work for the common good and want to show profit-driven industrial companies what alternative business models look like. We are primarily interested in disseminating solutions and knowledge.

How do you then act as a company and how can you continue to invest?

We build our non-profit business model on the three pillars. Donations and sponsorship, as well as non-profit organisation and commercial business operations. Profits remain in the company and are directly reinvested in research and education. There are no external investors, we are completely independent. For example, with the help of our supporters, we close data gaps where there is no research funding, but society still has questions and lacks answers. 

‘I see myself as part of society, because we all need clean water. Clean water is a human right and not an economic good.’

Why did you do that? You could earn a lot of money with your patent and then invest further.

That's a very good question. I share the opinion that water is a human right and should not be an economic good, and we are making our contribution to society as a whole with Water 3.0. It's about actively doing things differently, even if there are dry spells, sometimes energy and motivation are lost, more pats on the back come as feedback than financial resources. Everyone is talking about socio-ecological transformation, new business models geared towards the common good and system change: we are living it. 100% of the time.

As early as 2020, I realised that we needed a university structure without a bureaucratic water head, because we wanted to continue researching and training, but we wanted to be fast. I realised that I would have to set up an association or a non-profit limited company (gGmbH) to achieve my goal. Water technology is a very strong economic sector and you quickly find yourself in a shark tank. But thanks to its non-profit status, it is rather unique. Nobody likes to mess with a non-profit organisation. The nice thing about this type of company is that you are perceived as a small, individualistic change-maker. The emphasis is on small. 

‘Creating social value is crucial.’

For me, my invention should not be about personal enrichment. It's not about having 27 cars in the garage and 18 houses. I'm happy with what I have. Of course I sometimes wish I had a better work-life balance. But who doesn't? What matters to me is adding value to society, not my own profit. 

How do you actually go about looking for partners, e.g. sewage treatment plants?

Local authorities have their wastewater treatment plants, which are paid for by society's wastewater charges. The wastewater treatment plants are to be upgraded in the future, which will cost many billions of euros, which will then fall on the taxpayer in the municipality. In the end, wastewater charges will rise. More and more we find ourselves searching for the polluter with the sewage treatment plants. Sherlock Holmes-style, we ask ourselves where the most polluted wastewater comes from. We soon find ourselves at the doors of the industries that are connected to the wastewater treatment plants. In order to protect wastewater treatment plants, proactive action is needed at the polluter level. For us humans, this means that we should try not to pollute our household wastewater excessively with chemicals; for the industries, it means illuminating processes and optimising them in terms of sustainability.  

Are you already working with wastewater treatment plants?

We are involved in individual projects, including EU projects. We are currently working on wastewater treatment plants in Landau and on the Greek island of Mykonos. We are also helping other wastewater treatment plants to analyse microplastics, which are being called upon to take action following the adoption of the EU Urban Wastewater Directive.

Are you able to analyse the water from this complete, individual wastewater system? 

Yes, the water is analysed by our ‘Particle Sampling Unit’, a mobile sampling unit. A sample of 100 litres is taken from the entire wastewater stream that has already been purified. These 100 litres are the first reference. We have been carrying out this type of analysis at municipal wastewater treatment plants for more than two years. The first figures have been published. But continuity is needed. More samples, more clarity. We are working flat out on this. 

‘Many companies filter and filter and filter. But the problems are getting bigger and bigger. The process is becoming more and more expensive. From small to large is the solution to the microplastic problem, because you simply make the invisible visible.’

Were these tests or is your process already being used in practice?

Both. At the municipal wastewater treatment plant in Landau, in conjunction with the fourth purification stage, we started developing the so-called fourth purification stage plus as early as 2022. The fourth purification stage involves the removal of micropollutants. These are dissolved organic chemical compounds such as medicines, drug residues or pesticides. The ‘plus’ also describes the removal of microplastics. We do a lot of testing here and analyse a lot more, because only if you have a sound database can your actions be targeted, meaningful and comprehensible. 

In industry, we carry out feasibility studies. Our ‘Clump & Skim Technology’ is used here as an add-on solution. This means that we come to the real location with our rental model. In a simple setup, to put it bluntly, microplastic-contaminated wastewater in and treated wastewater out, we can show what is possible directly on site. In direct dialogue with the process engineers, the question is always whether the process works and our analysis shows that yes, it does. The moment the scepticism about a new process and a completely new approach disappears and the figures speak for themselves, I always get bright eyes. The concept of forming a few large lumps from many small microplastic particles is so simple and yet you have to do it first. And that's what we do. Everywhere they let us. 

Have you already mapped all the municipalities in Germany? 

That would be great if I could say that. But this comprehensive sampling requires money in the first instance and then there's the time factor. We are fast when it comes to taking action, but we also have to manage our resources. As a small team, we make a lot possible, work on international transfer and also try to reach national politicians. A lot is happening in individual EU countries, starting in Slovenia, Italy, Greece and Malta. And it goes on and on. We are making our contribution, but we are focussing on multiplication. Because we cannot save ourselves and our environment alone. 

Does this mean that Water 3.0 is better known outside Germany than in Germany? 

I can't judge that. But the fact is that the neighbouring countries are quicker to exchange ideas and take action than Germany.

‘Too many other construction sites and probably maximum overload in the current state of the nation. That's the only explanation.’

How can that be the case with our government? 

Too many other construction sites and probably maximum overload in the current state of the nation. That's the only explanation. Politicians can only do what the 24-hour day allows them to do.

What is it like when a scientist becomes an entrepreneur?

The best thing is the self-created scientific freedom that the non-profit environment at Wasser 3.0 gives me. Without reputation haggling. Without the constant confrontation with envy, resentment or stones in the way. Many people have already failed in the science system. Getting out of this bubble was the only right way. Because what I have now with Water 3.0 is much more compatible with my attitude to life and our environment. Our impact and speed of action have been increasing for years. And that's thanks to my great team, who make a positive difference every day for more water without microplastics. 

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