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Name: Andrew Gold

Occupation: Journalist, author

‘I wondered what a secret actually is, how it differs from something that is private and when it is a secret.‘

AM: Mr Gold, what is the psychology of secrets?

Andrew Gold: When I started my podcast, a lot of people contacted me to tell me intimate details about their lives. So I asked myself, why are they telling me this? Why do people tell their secrets to psychologists, therapists or hairdressers? And why do they encourage other people to spill their secrets? That was the first interesting thing for me. I wondered what a secret actually is, how it differs from something that is private and when it is a secret.

People generally assume that something that is secret might be more salacious or sensational than something that is private. But that's not always the case. For example: If a married couple, has a lot of sex, it's not really a secret, it's just private, but a married couple that doesn't have sex is usually a secret because it goes against societal expectations. I suppose the difference between a secret and a lie is also that a lie often has some kind of secret in it, but a secret doesn't because you don't have to lie to have a secret. I realised that we create very different self-images of ourselves on social media, which means that many of us must feel like we have to lie or keep who we really are a secret. We then feel ashamed when we keep secrets. 

You had all these stories before you started writing the book?

A lot of them were journalistic stories that I had collected over the years, for example the German paedophile couple from chapter nine, or the exorcist from Argentina. That was another reason to write a book, because I wanted to write about all the different kinds of journalism I've done over the years. My publisher, my agent and I tried to find out what connects all these stories. And so we found that all the characters I've interviewed seem to have secrets or are dealing with secrets in some way. When Pan Macmillan agreed to publish the book three or four years ago, it took a couple of years to write it. It was a lot of research, a lot of writing, and it was very, very difficult for me.

Will ‘The Psychology of Secrets’ also be published in German?

Yes, I would love to, because German is one of the languages I speak. We will wait until a German publisher approaches us or Pan Macmillan.

‘You have to speak the language of the local people to understand all the little nuances and subtleties of their culture.‘

What is a ‘polyglot with a passion for the bizarre and controversial’? Is that from you, or from a critic describing you? 

I never expected to speak another language because I was really bad at languages at school. As you know, most English people, most Americans, don't learn other languages. But I was lucky that my university sent me to France for a year where I had a French girlfriend who didn't speak English. I know that Germans reading this might think, hey, it's not that hard to learn another language, but for English people it's really a surprise. You have to speak the language of the local people to understand all the little nuances and subtleties of their culture. I decided to be the guy who could make documentary films in other languages. And so, for example, I filmed ‘Exorcism’ in Argentina in Spanish. 

It was interesting for me to meet bizarre and interesting, crazy people and even be able to speak in their language. For the conversations with the two German paedophiles, it was really important that I was able to speak to them in German.

Can you tell us about this encounter?

My wife, who is Argentinian, was able to get a working holiday visa for Germany. We moved to Berlin and read Harry Potter in German, for example, and went to lots of pubs and bars where there were study evenings. After maybe six to 12 months, I was good enough to hold conversations.

I saw adverts on the underground train for the Prevention Project Dunkelfeld in Berlin. And so I went to see the doctors. They explained to me that they were the only project for paedophiles that didn't require reporting. Here in England that wouldn't be possible because the therapist would have to report them to the police, and the same applies in America and Australia. Over the months, the clinic began to trust me and they gave my email address to some of the paedophile patients. Gradually, some of them got in touch with me and I started talking to them. That led me to the young couple. 

‘It's really important to show the world different kinds of people, not just the kinds of people you like.’

Can you tell us something about your mission? I mean, why do you do what you do?

I watched Louis Theroux and I liked his work so much that I thought about becoming a journalist too. I'm good at talking to people and I don't make a lot of judgements. I can sit down with a paedophile or a murderer without feeling like I'm moralising and thinking I'm better than them. I suppose it gives me a buzz and some adrenaline to be in a room with an exorcist, in a really bizarre, strange situation. It's really important to show the world different kinds of people, and not just the kinds of people you like. For me, it's always been about showing what might not be so popular. I never want to feel like there are things we deliberately don't say because we're afraid the other person might judge us. I wish we could have every conversation without judging the other person.

I think you have high expectations of the work of a journalist. People who are employed by a traditional magazine, for example, can't afford to work like that or say things that you can say.

I used to work at the Sun and have since gone completely freelance. I think what you're saying is important because there's a big debate about the impact of social media. At the moment, 30% of people seem to get their news from social media. That is of course problematic - the main problem is fake news. An example in England at the moment is the case when three young girls were stabbed to death. Twitter was very quick to falsely claim that the murderer was a Muslim. Afterwards, some people from the extreme right wanted to set fire to a mosque.

‘That's the problem that social media has. We don't check, we don't do our due diligence.‘

That's exactly the problem with social media. We don't check, we have no duty of care. The BBC has a duty of care when interviewing an exorcist's patient, for example. You have to make sure that he might not kill himself because of something you've shown on TV. But on the other hand, these checks are a big part of the problem. There are also a lot of TV channels spreading disinformation.

Because of due diligence, it means that broadcasters can't investigate the issue of transsexuality thoroughly because they're so worried about their obligation. There's also the problem that they're a big organisation and the BBC or Channel Four are more prone to groupthink. 

‘Tom Cruise is a true believer.’

You also always report a lot about Tom Cruise.

I've done a lot of work on cults like Scientology, as well as this book. These people are true believers. Tom Cruise is a true believer. I've seen the things that people believe in, like aliens, that they live on another planet, and all kinds of crazy things. And they're not lying. They really believe it. 

‘It sounds conspiratorial, but if you look at history, I don't think there's ever been a time when the mainstream media didn't believe something completely crazy that we think is crazy today.’

And your role alongside the mainstream media?

A big problem in mainstream news is that you're afraid of being fired, so everyone is incentivised to think and believe the things they're told to believe. But you need people like me on social media to provide a counterbalance to the mainstream media, which will always move in one direction. It sounds conspiratorial, but if you look at history, I don't think there's ever been a time when the mainstream media didn't believe something completely insane that we think is insane today. 

‘If you go back 200 years, the mainstream believed it was acceptable to keep slaves.‘

If you go back 200 years, the mainstream believed it was acceptable to keep slaves. Think mainstream beliefs in 1930s Germany. We will always need people from the outside to say, ‘Wait a minute!’

“I’ve been accused of being far-right, and I say I'm pro-abortion, I'm pro-choice, I'm atheist, I'm vegan, I'm pro-homosexuality, I'm pro-gay marriage, I'm pro-all these things. And if that's far-right for them because I believe in freedom of speech, then they need to rethink their position.“

Freedom of the press in Germany is one of the most important issues we have at the moment.

I think it's a fallacy that we think that the danger will come from the far right again just because the last big time in Europe where something went really bad was from the far right. I'm Jewish, and I'm always very concerned about where the danger is going to come from. It's not going to happen because people are so against Nazis. Everyone in Germany, or most people in Germany, are very much against Nazis. They will not vote for Nazi policies. One of the things we look at in the book is authoritarianism. And I think there's some evidence of who is trying to censor speech, stop publications, because those have never, ever, ever been the good guys in history. So this sense of righteousness when you start censoring other people is very dangerous.

I've been accused of being far-right, and I say I'm pro-abortion, I'm pro-choice, I'm atheist, I'm vegan, I'm pro-homosexuality, I'm pro-gay marriage, I'm pro-all these things. And if that's far-right for them because I believe in freedom of speech, then they need to rethink their position.

 ‘It's a place where people have started to believe that they are right but have actually gone mad.’

You have a family. With your controversial topics, I would guess that puts you in danger?

On my old YouTube channel, I covered Islam, Hasidic Judaism, Scientology, Jehovah's Witnesses and all kinds of cults and extremism. It's a place where people have started to think they're right, but in fact they've gone crazy. Hasidic Judaism for a typical jew is a bit like what Jehovah's Witnesses are to a typical Christian. I looked at it closely, coming from a Jewish family myself, but being an atheist. I've looked into their community and that's why they get annoyed with me. They have traditions and stories, but they don't have individual freedoms. I don't think it's fair, especially not to women who want to leave the community of Hasidic Judaism.

‘There are racists in the world and they should be condemned.’

How do you deal with the criticism now?

Sometimes I made videos about Islam and people started saying I was Islamophobic. When I made videos about transsexuals, I was a transphobe. So I started a new channel called Heretic, and I cover trans and diversity, some of these things we call ‘woke’. Of course I’m annoyed by the far-right too. But I don't know anyone, I've never met anyone, who is far right. And there are racists in the world, and they should be condemned.

Now there are these huge protests, hundreds or thousands, very aggressive, in America and in the UK and everywhere. And I think there's a big plan at the moment to exaggerate the threat from the far right in order to have an excuse to shut down free speech. In my opinion, it's not because politicians are evil, it's because they want to have more control, and they want to be able to control populations. We have the problem with mass immigration. The reason why we have these problems in Germany, in the UK, everywhere, is the ageing population in our countries. So we need young people coming into our country because we have too many older people. We can't afford to pay for them, but there is no other solution. So immigration is fine, but in the UK with 1.2 million people in a year, it's changing the demographics of the country too quickly. 

I sometimes try to talk about it, and of course that's very dangerous. I take certain precautions, for example I don't tell people what city I live in. My current problem is that TV stations and book festivals tell me that I am not allowed to talk about my book, even though my book is not about these topics.

‘Facts are more important than feelings, but they shouldn't hurt people unnecessarily.’

Your trans videos are very controversial.

I have often spoken very carefully about this on my YouTube channel. Many of my gay friends think the trans movement is homophobic. Many, many gay people believe the trans movement is telling gay boys they are not really boys. I don't believe that a man can be a woman. I don't believe that a man should be able to go to a woman's toilet. In a recent case in Australia, a woman has developed a women-only app called Giggle to talk about women's issues. A man named Roxy Tickle, wanted to get on the app to be able to talk to women. He sued Giggle, and under Australian law, he won the case because he said he declared himself a woman. And then you get to a point where you think, you know what, I don't care about the criticism anymore because I've been cancelled way too many times. That being said, I want to make sure that I don't hurt feelings unnecessarily. You know, I think facts are more important than feelings, but they shouldn't hurt people unnecessarily. Many trans people suffer a lot of pain and are in a very confused state, and I feel sorry for them, but there are women’s right to consider too.

The book festivals booked me through Pan Macmillan, but then they called me and said, ‘We just saw his YouTube channel and he's a controversial figure,’ even though my book doesn't have a controversial topic. One of the book festivals cancelled, and then everyone else cancelled too. My YouTube channel is big, sometimes there are hundreds of thousands of views, and if I went to a book festival, there might only be a hundred viewers in the audience.

“I hope that my book encourages people to stop judging other people because they have a different opinion. The book talks a lot about how people have to hide their political opinions because they are afraid of being ostracised.“

What feelings and reactions do you want from your readers? 

I hope that my book encourages people to stop judging other people because they have a different opinion. The book talks a lot about how people have to hide their political opinions because they are afraid of being ostracised. The reason I wrote about paedophilia is because we should be having these conversations about really difficult topics.

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Bookcover Andrew Gold Courtesy of Pan McMillan